(2 Peter 3:9), he does not force his love on anyone. Its not utopia but Ill take it. If He was visible to the eye, and perceivable to the senses, He would have resembled the things that are visible and perceivable to the senses on account of their being compound and created and in that case He would no longer have remained a creator. God, our creator cannot be perceivable by the five senses for, He is not a thing-which is compound elements etc or created. Dr. Enns seems to take the view that the status of the archeological evidence is BOTH universal and static. Havent found much written on it. Bringing people together seems easier when their differences are not discussed. fullness But when you reach the point where there is little to differentiate between different encounters or transcendent perceptions yielding incompatible truth claims, then you are not just dealing with a measure of uncertainty to be tolerated, but rather a total lack of confidence in whether what you believe corresponds to actual reality. Peter Enns is a very appealing writer evidenced in his The Bible Tells Me So. This wont be solved in a blog post, but heres basically where I am with all this believing in God businessin under 800 words. It seems like deep human contact or contact with God can exist only within the framework of these projects, based on the protocols of the overarching system. Heh, that brings back memories of being taught as a child that every breath I took was the providential, direct action of Jesus. ". But it takes the work of the Spirit of God in ones life to actually believe and rely upon these evidences. Id suggest there are other qualitative characteristics too. I realize that there is a long and rich history of discussion over difficult philosophical issues concerning the existence of God. The good news is that those who humble themselves and say yes when He calls do experience Him in an undeniable complete way. While some would say the orthodox Nature of God and his Oneness pertains to Being, I think most more linearly worship something that is more a manner of /a/ being than Being. Download Free PDF View PDF. Let us have both a precision of mind and openness of heart in dialoging on these matters. Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is the Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University in St. Davids, Pennsylvania. I read the first chapter or whatever was free that you sent. Yep. Proceeding ahead and remixing words just a bit, Thinking one can prove or disprove the existence of *any* God through rational analysis is to apply to *any* God a wrong way of knowing.. The question Is God real? is equal to the question Is magic real?. Such soon discover that He is indeed a God Who communicates and is very capable of laying out a clear path for us to follow. Too much struggle is maladaptive. I think the answer is bringing up the conversations more and trying to find what we have in common with each other. Show Notes This episode was . Faced with the incoherence of a fundamentalist/evangelical reaction to modernity, I have no problem accepting Pascals Wager and embracing your mystical/existential explanation. He is a former Senior Fellow of Biblical Studies for BioLogos and author of many books and commentaries, including Inspiration and Incarnation, The Evolution of Adam, and The Bible Tells Me So.His most recent book is The Sin of Certainty: Why God Desires Our Trust More Than Our "Correct" Beliefs. I love nothing more than learning about peoples stories and would love to learn more about yours. ), In chapter 5 Learning from the Christian Mystics Benner discusses a knowledge of God that is transrational and contemplative.. He brings these questions to his conversation with Jim, wrestling with how the Bible relates to our lives today. This emphasis on experience is important at a simple, direct level (participating in corporate worship, daily prayer, seeing/hearing God in others, etc. As Read Post The Evangelical Mind February 5, 2013 Category: General Tags: Doubt, Peter Enns, The Mind, The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, Theology, Wisdom and disasters I said that when it comes to experiences, peoples experience of Allah or Yahweh or Jesus or Krishna or Buddha lay along a wide spectrum. ~ Jackson Browne. . People who can conceive N concepts of God seem more adapt at considering the one concept of God of the person who can conceive one concept of God than people who can conceive one concept of God making sense of the N concepts of God of the others schema. Are they indeed properly basic?. Christian mysticism should . Instead it looks like people have a wide variety of reality tunnels and interpretations. Im not discounting the importance of thinking through these deep questions. What should be the impact? But I dont think this way of knowing settles theGod question, since it presumes that God is anelement of the cosmos that occupies space and issubject to observation and testinglike a quasar, proton, or tectonic plateswaiting to be discovered or discerned through methods by which we know the physical world. Or the mega church movement, to try and get and sustain even a greater Jesus high. First, let me say that I hold to the position that without faith one cannot please God His words, not mine. Left the Ministry. Which does seem not tranrational but rather irrational. In fact, if comparisons between spiritual experience seem to demonstrate anything, it is that perhaps the only objectively true thing we can say about it is that it is a very unreliable means of experience vulnerable to various illusions of reality. To dig down a little deeper theologically, I can deeply understand the paradox of the Incarnation of not only a God-as-man, but in the form of a baby in a manager in Galilee in first-century Palestine. And I also can grok the paradoxical Essence of a Triune God, the kind of God allowing himself to be humbled and broken in kenotic sacrifice as an example of a new Way of Being, in hope of bringing forth a Kingdom. Whoever accepts His Attributes to be other than His Person then actually forsakes the idea of Unity of God and believes in duality ( He and His Attributes). Open your eyes to what there is to see, or let Jesus open them for you (Mark 8, by daubing mud) and I theres not that much problem. Peter is 61 years old. Peter Enns (Ph.D., Harvard University) is Abram S. Clemens professor of biblical studies at Eastern University in St. Davids, Pennsylvania. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. As for your books title, The Sin of Certainty, you seem pretty certain that sin exists, though I suspect humans dont really need thatll added theological term since it seems more like a metaphor for any selfish behavior people of all religions or none already view in a negative fashion. All three books seek to better understand political representation, inequality, and social outcomes in the United States. I think the wrong way of knowing Peter refers to as rational analysis possibly could be better worded as non-paradoxical., In some ways (at least today), I cant help but think the answer to the does God exist? riddle is the Zens .. Per the books blurb, The Sin of Certainty models an acceptance of mystery and paradox that all believers can follow and why God prefers this path because it is only this way by which we can become mature disciples who truly trust God.. Thanks Pete! Proud men who reject His call are incredibly stupid and foolish beyond measure. I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on two ideas. I suggest you read Richard Rohr. As is knowledge of the Theotokos. You never know, He might answer you in a marvelous and loving way. I agree that post-enlightenment empiricism is never going to lead to genuine interaction with the creator, but what about prayer? When you know something by means of such encounter, you may not be able to express it verbally, at least not in a compelling, coherent, or exhaustive manner. Most people who are not believers are not believers because this side has so much certainty over things that we should not be saying we have so much certainty over. I suggest maybe you read your Bible again. Human faculties of conception, perception and learning, and attributes of volition, intuition and apprehension cannot catch sight of His Person or fathom the extent of His Might and Glory. I think the Mystics have something important to say. I like your emphasis here. Read Dr. Enns onThe Bible for Normal People the way is the path of becoming a new person because one is allowing God to lead you in a sense. . There is no difference between His Person and His Attributes, and His Attributes should not be differentiated or distinguished from His Person. The Christian trusts God even when things do not always make sense this tensions exists in the Christian message and story (but it exists in everyones story) the four Gospels are not shy in displaying this reality. Eye-witness accounts on Mount Sinai, the Mount of transfiguration, the road to Damascus and on and on. Though I certainly dont want to edge into Edwards post to restate it here. But may I pose this: It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. enns has published three books hijacking the agenda: economic power and political influence (winner of the gladys m. kammerer award, presented by the american political science association to honor the best book published during the previous year in the field of u.s. national policy), incarceration nation: how the united states became the most .without faith one cannot please God His words, not mine. I am married and trust my wife but like anything, marriage is a complete trust that the other person will be faithful (for better or worse) we live in the tensions of trusting people everyday (even strangers we do not know who drive vehicles). Well that seems to me to be more of a way of guessing then? Indeed. In view of all that is eternal it would not be worth much to consider them other than to satisfy academic curiosity. I think the sooner the Church heals the Great Schism and returns to the even the faith of Jesus certainly before Constantine and possibly before Paul, the better she will be on a cosmic mission. Perhaps even the characteristics on the other-way-of-knowing list are not beyond study. We're raising 50k for our campaign. Beitr-ge zum internationalen Symposium vom 27. bis 29. If yes, then how are we to treat the writings from the same period by men such as Josephus or Pliny. Thank you Joseph. If I have the experience of perceiving spiraling motion when looking upon a static optical illusion, you cannot deny that I have the experience of perceiving motion. Scrivenings Christians depression, suicide. Do you think JFK could have won with that campaign statement? 1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Culturally, we tend to have a project-based approach toward church life. There are a variety of reasons (speaking myself) that I believe while having doubt and disparaging my trust in God (Jesus) does not solve the dilemma (my own opinion) but creates more problems ( I was not raised Christian either in fact I did not become a Christian until a few years ago). to the barricades of heaven where Im from. Your argument for disbelief is foolish, because God cannot be like any of the things perceived by the senses, nor can He be said to bear any resemblance to anything which has to undergo an ordeal of change and decay. To me there is a sacred goodness in characteristics of the way and Christianitys wins over the centuries are attributable to this. Combining sophisticated quantitative analysis and compelling case studies, Hijacking the Agenda sets a new standard for research on inequality and American democracyand sounds a loud warning that all scholars and citizens should hear." JACOB HACKER, Stanley Resor Professor of Political Science, Yale University Incarceration Nation Peter Enns is Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, St. Davids, Pennsylvania. Meaning external, physical evidence. He has written or edited over a dozen books and many articles and essays. Here's the heart of it: 'Westminster Theological Seminary's board voted to suspend tenured professor Peter Enns last week after a two-year theological debate over his 2005 book, Inspiration and Incarnation. This is perhaps another way to look at the sin of certainty. However, today, philosophers who reject Cartesian or Substance Dualism acknowledge that subjective states like color, pain, and thoughts are objectively real using empirical tools. How have we regressed so far in 56 years? Enns prefers this approach because it supports his view of Adam as proto-Israel (107) and maintains an Israel-centered focus rather than a universal one (106). Sorry, curious. Joyfully I can say that as a conservative Presbyterian, some of my closest friends are devout Roman Catholics. He was after all, our first RC President. The Bible Tells Me So: Why Defending Scripture Has Made Us Unable To Read It. 610-341-5800. Interesting article. Now one can doubt that the man, Peter ever lived, but there are extra-biblical references to him as being the head of the church. But is that version of a Messiah a bringer of healing to all? You can although quite innadequately (as with so many other things in life), still put them on the table. When asked, do you believe God exists?, I cant help but response with, what do you mean by God?'. Depending on how you interpret Gods word, I hope He is not good to it in the sense of damning nonbelievers to an eternity of torment. Let God alone if need be. And if you dont fit into the system? By some measure, through Jesus of Nazareth and the ensuing religion of Christianity, a longing has been fulfilled; there has been great participation. In fact, there are now around two billion adherents to the faith. It is in this context, that Christianity, for me, is a profound disappointment. James KA Smiths Desiring the Kingdom. Im all for that. If the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ does exist, watch out. Dr. Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is Abram S. Clemens professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, St. Davids, PA. Such is life. Read Nondiscrimination Policy. Here in this comment thread, we havent really talked about the latter. Religious conviction without evidence based knowledge is why there are so many religions, denominations, sects and cults and demonizations of one by the other. Now to consider these values a bit, we can exercise some examples. In both stories, the boat comes to rest on a mountain and birds are sent out to find land. Pete: I much prefer your brand of Christianity to others, and the world would be a better place if more people thought like you. What about more recent writings such as the Gettysburg Address? Many miss it here because they want to be in control of any such relationship. Relationship is key, whether we are thinking about non-living parts of the cosmos, the living world, human-human relationships or human-divine relationships. With the exact same merit. Dr. Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is Abram S. Clemens professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, St. Davids, PA. I have posts on my blog, Scrivenings, about depressions and suicide among Christians, and their gullibility, i.e., religious affinity fraud. Their experience will be every bit as powerful, transformative, transcendent, etc. With the exact same merit. He is also co-founder and chief . I think there is a model there where the subjective, but real experience of God is the starting point for understanding the perceptual equipment, which will help us to acknowledge the existence of a real Being that makes the subjective states or experiences real. After I became more of a questioner, and more curious about a lot of things I no longer experienced such manic-depression. Who said God is a HE? . He argues that the Bible should not be used as a literal "instruction manual but as a model for our spiritual journey," a very liberal take on Christianity. The Quran Chapter 112, Things are compound elements atoms etc, made of parts. Then once that person starts walking with God God (should) will reveal the truth to them. For me, I often think about thinking in this context more than either a historically analytical school or even Continental. I get that I cant prove or disprove God or any God or really anything non-material thats at least logically consistent. Magic is not real. Foreign Professionals in Babylon: Evidence from the Archive in the Palace of Nebuchadnezzar II Neo-Assyrian Texts from Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon: A Preliminary Report Cities and urban landscapes in the Ancient Near East and Egypt with special focus on the city of Babylon - with Paul Sinclair, Irmgard . Not if hes using evidence in the sense Ive advocated for in this thread Pete. What gives? Redemption to a broken world? Could it well be that this spiritual sense is very prone to illusion as well? in being with another person expressing love in ones flesh. We struggle with and within the limits of what we can come to know. He speaks actively in academic and ecclesiastical venues on topics pertaining the Bible and Christian faith. Instead only their book features inspired writingsthe truth and stories necessary to believe, and of course conservatives, moderates and liberals differ concerning what that book really means or what the most essential and necessary lessons are. The idea there is magic in the universe is ridiculous, childish, and completely impossible. transrational Magic is not real therefore magical deities are impossible. My personal thought is that 11 Peter is one of the later books of the NT; likely written circa 125-150 AD. What are your thoughts on passages like 1 John 5:13, which indicate explicitly that it is possible for a person to know with rational certainty whether or not there is a God and whether or not they can truly believe in Jesus being the Messiah. I get asked now and then, Pete, youre a reasonably intelligent guy, with a Ph.D. and everything. But if you are after people of all religions, denominations, sects and cults saying, We dont really know, but why change because this seems to be working alright? Fine. I suspect it is because they are not comfortable with any other way of knowing. None the less, I believe in Democracy and think Iron Man is awesome. Wonder of breathing and wonder of stars and wonder of babies are indeed wonders. perhaps the matter of knowing God is based on ones necessity to survive. None can fully understand or explain His Being however hard he my try. But regarding a mans spiritual experience cannot be denied, well the experience may not perhaps but certainly the interpretation of it can. Asking whether the enemy, or lunch, or nothing is moving in the bush over there is something we do together. What I have noticed especially in connection with your point about knowing God outside of our default rationalism, Pete, is that both as a church and as individual Christians in the West, we find it difficult knowing how to spend time in silence, or in solitude, away from our faith projects or church systems. But you can deny that my experience reflects actual motion in reality. It is knowing of a different order. 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