[21] However, geneticists today do not believe that the haplotype presented in the Moore paper represents descent from Niall of the Nine Hostages as Niall, being possibly mythical, does not have verifiable remains that can be tested. [5] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. Another test was provided by the Stone of Fl, which screamed when it was touched by the rightful heir. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. 78-79 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. [3 ] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. fought his way to become King of Tara in the late 4th or early 5th century. When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. Howard, W.E. [5] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[6] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. Niall of the Nine Hostages, (in Irish, Niall Naoi Nogiallach) is a quasi-historical character in Ireland's story. Although its remarkable that nearly 1 in 10 Americans might say Kiss Me Im Irish! on St. Patricks day, its not clear if all these people actually have Irish ancestors or if they simply feel an affinity for corned beef and green beer. nose and a serious case of puss popping zits. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. ", According to 23andMe.com, "The spread of haplogroup R-M269 in northern Ireland and Scotland was likely aided by men like Niall of the Nine Hostages. She iStock. Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[3]. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars, through critical study of the annals, date him about half a century later. Niall's accession to the throne possibly took place around 379AD. [5] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. There are However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. The Annals of the Four Masters place Niall's death at Muir nIcht, i.e. The story then becomes confused. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. stories say that the future St Patrick was among hostages taken from one such We've all technically got "common ancestor" with Niall because we've all got a common paternal ancestor. [15 ], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. century. Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, That slave would later escape and go to become Ireland's patron. Sign up to IrishCentral's newsletter to stay up-to-date with everything Irish! I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. hostages from the family of neighbours and under-kings. [5], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. After reading through their ancestry reports from 23andMe, customers can now browse Airbnb homes and experiences in their native countriesand plan vacations as unique as their DNA. [19][20] According to the PBS documentary series Finding Your Roots, Bill O'Reilly, Stephen Colbert, Colin Quinn, Bill Maher, and the show's host, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. all display STR markers consistent with the Irish Modal Haplotype. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Professor Dith hgin seems to indicate that Niall was likely a descendant of the Gaulish seafaring tribe of the Veneti, who originated in south-east Armorica (modern Brittany, France). Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late . 2) 1. Even if you were alive at the same time as Niall, your common paternal ancestor still would have been thousands of years back. Autosomal DNA, which is what we use to measure percentages of ethnicity, only has strong relevance for about 6-10 generations back. Son of Eochaidh Muighmheadhoin #124. [6], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[4] and Francis J. Byrne[3]:7879 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. [3 ] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. Are you familiar with the Irish 'Wild Geese'? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Although generally supposed to be a historical personage, very little can confidently be said of Niall's life. When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels." But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Niall of the Nine Hostages Irish leader Learn about this topic in these articles: association with Conn In Conn Ctchathach to be the ancestor of Niall of the Nine Hostages (reigned 379-405), who founded the U Nill, the greatest dynasty in Irish history. He died in a raid on Roman France in 405 AD. There is a similarity in both names that it is likely it is the same person. One day, the five brothers being in the smith's forge when it took fire, they were commanded to run and save what they could. and tr. [17] The Scottish Clan Ewen of Otter, Gilchrist; Clan Lamont; the MacSorleys of Monydrain,[18] (of Clan MacDonald of Dunnyveg a branch of Clan Donald); Clan Maclachlan; Clan MacNeil, and the MacSweens all claim a descent from an Irish prince of the O'Neill dynasty, nrothn Ua Nill/Anrothan O'Neill, son of ed, son of Flaithbertach Ua Nill, King of Ailech and Cenl nEgain, who left Ireland for Kintyre in the 11th century and died 1036. November 25, 2016. Crypto men who can trace their ancestry to Ireland, and especially the north of He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. [3] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua hArtacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[3][16] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times.[7]. While the signature is typical for R1b European males in general, it is characterized by 11,13 at DYS 385a/b and 14 at DYS 392. | Home Page | Disclaimer | Contact | Sitemap |. [9 ], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. haplotype originated at least several centuries before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Tom Peete Cross & Clark Harris Slover (eds.). xenophon agesilaus summary; Niall exiles him to Scotland. and tr. The baby is rescued and brought up by a poet called Torna. I confirm that, as stated in this site's Privacy Policy, I do not sell personal information. After the death of Niall of the Nine Hostages, one of his sons, Laedhaire, Geni requires JavaScript! In It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. My original information was obtained from Genealogy information held at University of Hull. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Some clarity would be welcome if anyone has done extensive research on this pedigree. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. [7] However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[5] and Francis J. Byrne[4]:pp. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. [8] Accession, Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include (O')Neill, (O')Gallagher, (O')Boyle, (O')Doherty, O'Donnell, Connor, Cannon, Bradley, O'Reilly, Flynn, (Mc)Kee, Campbell, Devlin, Donnelly, Egan, Gormley, Hynes, McCaul, McGovern, McLoughlin, McManus, McMenamin, Molloy, O'Kane, O'Rourke and Quinn. As Niall was his father's favorite, Mong Fionn did not rest until she had outcast him and his mother, Carthann, and made Carthann her menial, carrying water to the court. Please enable JavaScript in your browser's settings to use this part of Geni. His people were Celts who had escaped domination by the Romans by fleeing north and west. [6 ], King Of Ireland & Tara Niall Mor NOIGIALLACH, Died: Abt 453, Tara, Ireland about age 73. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone http://www.genealogy4u.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I17949& http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal. Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450.[4]. One of 390-461). You absolutely do not understand. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. These Connachta later extended their power eastward into the plain of Meath, and under the leader Teutovalos Teachtmhar overthrew the kingship of the Lagini at Tara around AD 300. Niall of the Nine Hostages was the greatest king that Ireland knew between the time of Cormac MacArt and the coming of Patrick. Dedicated to helping YOU discover your Irish Heritage. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. children, from wives or concubines, were acknowledged. People wanting to join this group must be managing a Ydna test from a male relative who has tested at FTdna for a Ydna test and got the little symbol that says they descend from Niall and The Nine Hostages. So how do you know if you have Irish ancestry? The only company that does Y-dna tests is FTdna (FamilyTreeDNA). [ 11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. It was in one of these Gallic expeditions that the lad Succat, destined under his later name of Patrick to be the greatest and noblest figure Ireland ever knew, was taken in a sweep of captives, carried to Ireland and to Antrim, there to herd the swine of the chieftain, Milcho. [7 ] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. M222 is roughly 2000 years old, so even though it is mostly found among men with Irish or Scottish heritage, it's not unusual to find it anywhere in Europe. [11], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. To see the names of the first thirty-five descendants from Adam, the invention of those Irish monks, go to Ancient Irish Lineage on the Our Early Family web site. [7], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. https://reddit.app.link/S7mCRh4DeR I think you're probably right about the Northern Spain theory. Watch a video of a lecture presented at Genetic Genealogy Ireland conference to learn more about research by the O'Neill DNA Group: here. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Emain Macha, the capital of the Uliada, which Niall captured early on, became the capital of the Airgialla (lit: "givers of hostages") which is said to explain Niall's second name (Noigiallach = "of the Nine Hostages"). (21%). powerful people who controlled an area loosely centred on present-day Armagh Birth of Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal, Birth of Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland, 126th HIgh KIng of Ireland, Greatest High King of Ireland, aka Nial Mor NAOIGHIALLACH `of the Nine Hostages'; 1st King (but reckoned 126th MONARCH) of IRELAND; conquered nine countries (incl. If Patrick was not this person, he would have lived shortly thereafter. The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. People move. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. The boy eventually escaped, but returned to Ireland as St. Patrick. The U Nill ruled to various degrees as kings of Ireland from the 7th to the 11th century C.E. Moore et al. He gave rise to the powerful and widespread O'Neil (Ui Neill) dynasty of . In 2019, 23andMe teamed up with Airbnb to take ancestry from the page to the world stage through a newly launched Heritage Travel program. ), told me that Im a sub-type of a lineage called H6a (specifically H6a1b). Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. Niall of the Nine Hostages was so named because in his early reign he consolidated his power by taking hostages from opposing royal families. As next-generation sequencing has become available, various chief lines have been tested. Adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedon, a young Niall Nogiallach is out Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legendone of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleand in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? Published by at June 22, 2022. tales as these old hag transformed by physical intimacy of a young man are They worshipped a ram god and sometimes called themselves Ghaisonli ('spear-men'), possibly to compete in propaganda with the Lagini ('lance-men'). In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Niall Of The Nine Hostages DNA Match Men of Irish descent who have taken their Y-DNA or higher test with FamilyTreeDNA may discover that you have an exact DNA match to Niall, King of Connachta. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Several testing companies can do this test: Of note to Family Tree DNA customers, this signature is found in .6 of one percent of the entire family Tree DNA database. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Only Niall kisses her properly, and she is revealed as a beautiful maiden, the Sovereignty of Ireland. Thousands of years is a long time. Kathleen Hughes, "The church in Irish society, 400800, in Dibh Crinn (ed.). As the number of hostages was nine, Niall earned the epithet 'of the Nine Hostages'. [3] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. Even though I dont have a Y chromosome, I can learn about my paternal line through my biological brothers or fathers DNA. Privacy Policy. Distant view of Round Tower at Glendalough, Neill, While Moore et al. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. In the highly patriarchal society of medieval Ireland, their status allowed them to have outsized numbers of children and spread their paternal lineage each generation. Eochaidh had been banished as the King of Leinster and had plans to be the High King of Ireland. If instead, I want to see if I have Irish ancestry on my fathers side (even though my father has never claimed to be Irish! His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. relative viscosity of nylon 6; predictive index cognitive assessment answers; why do baseball players spit so much; Hello world! What is a paternal line? [10 ] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. "One of the greatest high kings was Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose reign began in AD 379. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. [5] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. (Princess Of Britain ROIGHNEACH was born about 380. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA Skeletal remains of Viking child found during Dublin excavation, How to find out if you have Irish Viking ancestry, How you can learn Gaelic literature and culture online with a top Irish university, The Irish roots of The Doors Jim Morrison and how they influenced him, On This Day: Singing in the Rain Gene Kelly passed away. [27], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. H6a is is an offshoot of the broader H maternal line and is found at low levels 4% or less in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, France, Sweden and Ireland! Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish High King Lugaid Laigde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. Copyright 2023 Irish Studio LLC All rights reserved. France, killed on the banks of River Loire. Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, He formed an alliance with the Scots and Picts and sent ships to plunder England, Scotland, Wales, and France. Battles, who may have lived in the middle of the 2nd century and was reputedly Keating associates these raids with those mentioned by Gildas and Bede, and deduces that, since some Irish sources say Patrick was abducted from Brittany, that Niall's raids must have extended to continental Europe as well.[6]. strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui Especially considering the fact that my paternal line can only be traced back to 1830? So, too, do about 1-in-50 New Yorkers of European heritage, reflecting The less Patricus later came to be known as St. Patrick. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Sep 12, 2021. of Niall's promiscuity (a trait that, according to Celtic thinking, went hand [9] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. [4 ] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, theKings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. Supposedly slain in the English Channel or in Scotland, his descendants were the most powerful rulers of Ireland until the 11th century. The Royal History of Ireland. For more information, please see our Among the plunder captured by the band of warriors dispatched by Ireland's King Niall of the Nine Hostages was a 16-year-old boy named Succat. [3] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded and have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. 1 / 5. While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. Niall Nogallach ( pronounced [nil noilx]; Old Irish "having nine hostages "), [1] or Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a legendary, semi-historical Irish king who was the ancestor of the U Nill dynasties that dominated Ireland from the 6th to the 10th centuries. 100% Irish? You might consider getting a Y-DNA test to see if you can learn more. signature is created. Some of these sailors probably migrated to Cornwall, and later to south-eastern Ireland where they became known as the Venii and grew in power. Across the island as a whole, a different sub-clade the M269 pattern is [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Could I claim that (a) it's an Irish haplgroup, (b) that it can be traced back to the warring clans of the Ui Neill dynasty? Niall of the Nine Hostages. [2] A poem by the 11th-century poet Cined Ua Hartacin in the Book of Leinster credits Niall with seven raids on Britain, on the last of which he was killed by Eochaid "above the surf of the Ictian Sea";[2][13] a poem attributed to the same poet in Lebor na hUidre credits him with going to the Alps seven times.
